Stop blaming the auto industry

"450X_FTW" (mistermic) 01/27/2016 at 11:55 • Filed to: None

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When you work for the auto industry, two topics are always blamed on us 1) jobs leaving the US 2) greenhouse gas/pollution/global warming.

People always complain about auto jobs going to Mexico, China, or other countries where manufacturing is cheap. Fact is, not everything for your car can be made in the US. Some countries make parts for your car that perform better than what suppliers in the US can offer, so don’t fault the OEM for going with a supplier from another country. The auto industry is a world market.

This goes along with the “buy American support American jobs”, which basically means buy from Ford, GM, or FCA if you support American jobs. This crap needs to end. Just because you buy from a non-Big 3 auto maker, does not mean you don’t support American jobs. If you buy a BMW X-5 you support American jobs, because that vehicle is built in Greer, South Carolina. If you buy a Toyota Tundra you support American jobs, because that vehicle is built in San Antonio, Texas.

These are likely the same people who will have the bumper sticker “out of the jump yet? Keep buying foreign” on their F-150 yet they shop exclusivley at Walmart where if you factor out the produce, majority of what Walmart sells is made outside the US. I have yet to see people demand apparel companies make their clothes in the US instead of Thailand, or their computers in the US instead of India.

Next point is emissions. The US has the most stringent emission requirements in the world for new cars, and they are always getting more difficult to meet. (insert VW dieselgategazi comment here).

Not only are the tailpipe emissions getting cleaner, we’re buying cars/trucks that use far less fuel. Six years ago if you would have said that in 2014 I could own a full size Ram 1500 that gets 29 MPG on the highway, I would have laughed at you. Now we can with the use of small fuel efficient diesels

From Edmunds:

So while the automakers are busting their asses to meet the new fuel economy and emission requirements, the coal industry is instead filing lawsuits against the government because their new emissions are too difficult to meet.

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Just as bad, a study in 2009 found that the 15 largest ships in the world emit as much NOx and SOx as the world’s 760 MILLION cars.

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The point I’m getting at is the blame lies elsewhere. END RANT.

For Sweden > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:00

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What car should I buy if my goal is to actively hurt the American worker?

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:01

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TL;DR

But working the auto industry and reading the first paragraph, I can kinda guess where you were going with this.

Hear, hear, good sir!

For Sweden > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:01

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The dependent variable scale of this graph should start at 0, not 24

450X_FTW > For Sweden 01/27/2016 at 12:01

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Anything that is only available outside the US and has to wait for the 25 year import law. My mind thinks a Chinese car, becaue I doubt they would use any american parts on it. Too expensive

iSureWilll > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:01

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Interesting stat about the 15 ships.

Keep buyin that Toyota and Americas gonna keep goin’ta shite! :)

450X_FTW > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow 01/27/2016 at 12:02

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I tried to consolidate it, was not easy ha

For Sweden > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:02

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That might give business to American dock workers and importers though

450X_FTW > For Sweden 01/27/2016 at 12:02

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I didn’t make the graph, it was the only one I could find that was useful for my comments. If it was my choice it would have gone back another 17 years for data points

450X_FTW > For Sweden 01/27/2016 at 12:03

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Use a shipping company that only hires illegals. That’s the best I can do for ya

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:03

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Don’t forget that all Nissan’s ever the Euro and Nippon market vehicles have many of their panels made in Smyrna, TN.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:04

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I’m not saying that buying a foreign brand car doesn’t support factory jobs in the US.

A large part of design, engineering, marketing, and “home office” type jobs are all over seas still for “foreign” brand cars. If you call up Ford’s HQ, you get Dearborn, MI. If you call up BMW’s HQ you get Munich, Germany.

Sure BMW has a North American HQ in NJ, but in the end you’re probably supporting MORE US jobs by buying a Ford or GM.

If you’re like me and buy used, that purchase is only helping out the local dealership anyhow. (and yes my daily driver Mercury was Hecho en Mexico)

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:05

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Lol I figured as much

450X_FTW > R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet 01/27/2016 at 12:05

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Titan is made in Canton, Mississippi too

Zip-McBump > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:05

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I feel your pain, but then again, I’m one of those evil energy industry workers. Let’s just say that there’s a lot more to those EPA lawsuits than simply feet-dragging.

HammerheadFistpunch > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:06

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People generally need to get off the back of the auto industry in terms of emissions. YES they are a contributor, but they are a relatively small contributor with diminishing returns in terms of areas to improve. i.e. we could dump as much money as we have from the 1970's to now to improve emissions output going forward and achieve a 1/1000th of the benefit. OR we would put that money into power generation, heavy shipping, or other areas of larger gains. The car...as it stands in 2016...is the least of our worries in terms of emissions punching bags.

450X_FTW > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/27/2016 at 12:08

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And I work for a Germany supplier who has an office in the US, and a lot of our parts are also made in the US. But because we’re a Germany company, people still have the thought that “all the money goes back over seas”.

Hell Toyota alone employs 365,000 people in the US.

Berang > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/27/2016 at 12:08

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Never trust a car under 30.

450X_FTW > Zip-McBump 01/27/2016 at 12:09

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I’m sure there is, it’s a lot of upgrades to plants that I’m sure some of are too old to handle.

Gone > For Sweden 01/27/2016 at 12:09

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Maximum violence:

Minimum violence:

450X_FTW > HammerheadFistpunch 01/27/2016 at 12:09

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High five!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:14

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That’s great and I’m glad those jobs are in the US. I never said ALL the money goes back over seas, but I can promise you where left over profit goes after re-investment/upgrades.

A Japanese or German based company would not do business in the US if they didn’t receive profits at home, what would be the point?

Yes they reinvest in their plants, yes they have local offices, yes they employ Americans, yes that supports local economies around the country.

I’m still going to support the company in the US. Just who I am.

Also, I’ve worked for Ford’s Advertising Agencies for over 6 years (combined between 2 of them) now.

Berang > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:15

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I wonder how bad those ships are compared to airliners?

Also, while I don’t disagree with the facts, I don’t necessarily agree with the argument. Cars pollute, just because other things pollute worse, doesn’t make cars not pollute. And there is still room for improvement, so it’s not like it’s a non-issue.

450X_FTW > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/27/2016 at 12:18

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I think back to late 2000's when I was shopping for a new car. I was looking at a Subuara Impreza because of the AWD and relataviley cheap price ( I think low to mid 20k range). My brother in law whos a die hard union member heard this and started giving me crap instantly about it being a Jap car. I explained that the only US made AWD cars were $30,000 and up and I didn’t like any of them. So to his point, I should buy a car that is too much money that I don’t like because it supports US jobs.

GTI Sprinks > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:20

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100% this. Globalization. Everyone produces at least some part of the vehicle NA side (and more specifically, state-side) these days.

Here’s a not-so-up-to-date list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a…

450X_FTW > Berang 01/27/2016 at 12:22

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Not saying it’s a non-issue, merely saying the primary cause and blame needs to be placed elsewhere. Cars today are cleaner than ever, yet for environmentalists, they will never be clean enough

450X_FTW > GTI Sprinks 01/27/2016 at 12:23

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That’s awesome, never would have thought Kia and Hyundai would have plants in the US

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:27

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Well as big of a FIND A US CAR kind of guy that I am, that’s an insane policy for him to keep.

Again, a lot of this doesn’t matter when it comes to me other than having another Mercury on the road as mobile advertising (for a defunct brand) and a Jeep on the road as advertising.

Neither were bought new so they really only helped the dealership, not the automaker.

vondon302 > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:27

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Yes to all of this and hear hear. 450x ftw have a beer on me tonight.

jariten1781 > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:30

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Agree with most everything in this post except:

I have yet to see people demand apparel companies make their clothes in the US instead of Thailand, or their computers in the US instead of India.

That’s not really true. Maybe it’s the outlets you read, but foreign manufacturing and ‘buy local’ gets play across all industries. Don’t see it as much from Joe Schmoe ‘on the street’, I suppose, because the brands aren’t as culturally ingrained but it’s definitely there from folks who have that mindset and follow those industries.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:31

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A lot these points could be solved if ‘Murica would stop being willfully ignorant about things.

Ignorance in itself is nothing to be ashamed of. No one can know everything about everything. I will readily admit to not knowing a great deal about a lot of things. But, the willfull and malicious refusal to learn about some very basic and simple principles is ruining this country, and will ruin the planet if we keep it up.

GTI Sprinks > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:34

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Agreed.

Sidenote: It would be a fun project for Oppo to actively try and update everything auto based it can on wiki.

450X_FTW > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 01/27/2016 at 12:34

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The “Murican” movement refuses to learn from other countries

450X_FTW > jariten1781 01/27/2016 at 12:36

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I will say there is some input on the “buy local”, but it’s one day a year you even hear about it. Think it’s the saturday after black friday?

BigBlock440 > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:37

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So to his point, I should buy a car that is too much money that I don’t like because it supports US jobs.

That’s the Walmart argument you mention, buy cheaper.

450X_FTW > GTI Sprinks 01/27/2016 at 12:38

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My goal is to get GM to do one of those lame commercials where they show the car with zero badges on it and have people guess who makes it. The people guess it’s a Lexus or BMW, only to find out it’s a cheap Malibu. Oppo’s would start asking questions like “why are the panel gaps so big”

450X_FTW > BigBlock440 01/27/2016 at 12:39

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It’s about buying what I want. I don’t want a boat anchor of a Dodge Charger simply because it has AWD when I could have an Impreza which suits my needs and lifestyle better.

BigBlock440 > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:46

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yet they shop exclusivley at Walmart where if you factor out the produce, majority of what Walmart sells is made outside the US.

I’m not really sure where Walmart gets this reputation (not singling you out on this, I see this sentiment mentioned everywhere). Are the majority of their products imports? Yes, but that’s true for most stores, very few things are made in this country anymore and are unlikely to be found at retail stores. In my experience, Walmart is better than average at stocking made-in-USA things (I’m a tag-checker, almost obsessively). I don’t buy a whole lot of things there, but probably 25% of my Walmart purchase are US-sourced. Some examples being socks, a cooler, ammo, a knife.

BigBlock440 > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 12:52

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That’s fine, but that’s a different argument than “so I should pay more to support US jobs?”

450X_FTW > BigBlock440 01/27/2016 at 12:53

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Just a few months ago they were investigated for those “made in the USA” labels and investigators found a lot of items were wrongly labeled.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/20/wal…

450X_FTW > BigBlock440 01/27/2016 at 12:57

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No, it’s about the people who tell others to buy american made cars because american jobs, yet they buy things that aren’t made america.

BigBlock440 > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 13:00

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Well then. I guess I’m just as gullible as anybody.

Though I think some of my purchases were still good (knife, ammo, etc.)

R Saldana [|Oo|======|oO|] - BTC/ETH/LTC Prophet > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 13:01

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There is a company two doors down from mine that the team shoot car and gun review footage and they have a Cummins-equipped Titan in today in blue. Seriously good looking truck, but still too big of a front bumper.

450X_FTW > BigBlock440 01/27/2016 at 13:05

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Majority of ammo is made in the us, importing ammo is about the least Murican thing one can do

RallyWrench > For Sweden 01/27/2016 at 13:43

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Volvo.

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 14:54

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Doesn’t it? From my understanding, the profit we make at my US office goes back to HQ in Japan and Japan gets the tax revenue. It’s all very convoluted

450X_FTW > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 01/27/2016 at 15:01

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I don’t know about for tax purposes, but there’s a lot of people in this office that have to get paid. There’s a lot of development testing we do here that costs money. Prototyping components, that has to be paid someone

Santiago of Escuderia Boricua > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 15:16

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True. Although lately, our company has been encouraging getting prototype parts from Mexico to save money...

uofime-2 > Santiago of Escuderia Boricua 01/27/2016 at 16:05

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I can guess how that goes.

09GT - now boosted > 450X_FTW 01/27/2016 at 19:24

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Toyota does NOT employ 365,000 people in the US (they only employed 333,000 worldwide in 2013). You got that number from the Toyota USA website - if you read the fine print it says “jobs created directly or indirectly” in their 50+ years here (factors, dealers, suppliers, construction, the McDonalds down the street, etc). Fairly nebulous numbers.

They DIRECTLY employ “tens of thousands” (their words, not mine) - the number was 36,000 in 2008 (GM was 142,000) at that time.

Eggplant > For Sweden 01/27/2016 at 19:35

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Ship it to Mexico or Canada and drive it across the border? Hire a local lawyer/broker there to handle the import paperwork.

450X_FTW > 09GT - now boosted 01/27/2016 at 21:10

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Still helps american jobs right?